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I don't know about anyone else but I am tired of the constant lies and misinformation the media likes to promulgate regarding Hybrid cars.  The same media culture that loves to promote all combination of risky financing for housing and frivolous spending is a real stickler for insisting that the Hybrid vehicle is a net loss--and that the gas a Hybrid will save you will not pay the sticker price.

For example, take this article from CNN today:

For consumers simply looking to save money in the face of rising gasoline prices, it makes more sense to purchase a fuel-efficient vehicle that doesn't rely on hybrid technology. Hybrid versions of vehicles usually cost about $3,500 to nearly $8,000 more than non-hybrid versions. Part of that cost is for unrelated options that usually come as part of a hybrid package that you might not even want - third row seats, leather interior, wood grain veneer.


Yes, they tell you, you are much better off if you just keep buying cars like this:



2004 Saturn Vue FWD

Fuel Type on Regular Gas:

MPG (City): 20

MPG (highway): 28

MPG (combined): 23

And this--from yet another CNN article today titled "Satern Vue Green Line: hybrid for tightwads:

And people believe them, because they are just as easily lied to on this issue as on the war in Iraq, abortion and gays.  Yes, we thinks anything over 17 MPG is stellar!

Just take a look at what a great deal people believe they are getting.  From a Yahoo consumer review board, we get stuff like this from a couple of reviewers:



Pros: Powerful with good fuel economy

Cons: Mount gear rack is noisy!  --don't buy it, or just remove it!

We have seen as high as 29 on a vacation and no less than 23 around town. (Big improvement over a van that only got 17 MPG - almost 50% improvement!).

<snip>

Overall a Great Deal

By Todd in Columbia Maryland

Pros: Fuel Economy, Power, Lots of Extras

Cons: Hate the Design of the Seats

I bought my 2006 FWD V6 Vue. So far I love! I traded in my 2003 Nissan Xterra with SC. I loved my Nissan with the Super Charger, but my Vue has 40 more HP and gets 5-15 mpg more. I was leary about about buying a Saturn, but it was between the Equinox and the Vue. I chose the Vue I chose the Vue simply because I felt I got more for the money and from what I understand the they are both based of the same vehicle.  

That's right, "because I felt I got more for the money."  Not that you actually did, but hey, emotion is what they use to sell you this junk.  But as gas prices rise, people are starting to question the wisdom from on high.  Of course, take it with a grain of salt: these are people upset over SUV gas mileage.

Got Burned As the Gas Burns

 By Frustrated from Springfield, VA

Pros: Roomy Interior, nice V-6 Power

Cons: Gas mileage performance a huge disappointment

I drive 17 miles to work, 15 on the highway at midnight. No traffic, No A/C and getting no mileage. Only averaging 18 mpg should be getting near 25. Not reaching stated mpg. My 2000 explorer was geting better mileage...

I drive a Honda Civic, so I know all about good gas mileage.  For comparison's sake, I will refer to the non-Hybrid Civic when I compare the two in this piece, and not some asinine media suggestion involving a lightweight truck.  But when my friend bought his Prius, I noticed there are a lot of other financial benefits the media doesn't like to take into consideration when they factor in the price of owning a Hybrid versus some "good gas mileage" SUV they always seem to be pushing.  And aren't they always comparing it against the price of a Prius (High) versus the mileage of a Non-Toyota Hybrid SUV (Comparatively Low)?

First of all, there is the advantage of not having to fill the damn thing up every other day.  Because not only are you not having to pay for gas, you aren't physically taking the time out of your busy day to go to the gas station to fill it up.  My friend would go weeks on city driving, hundreds of miles, without having to expend those 10-15 minutes for a trip to fill it up.  

I don't know about you, but odds are that if I'm late, I'm also out of gas.  And that is a huge pain.  The amount of time my friend saves on not gassing the damn thing has been one of the biggest surprises; and also one of the major advantages I see in owning a Prius over a non-Hybrid Civic.

Second, in California commuters enjoy the added benefit of being able to use High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes.  While the fairness of this has been debated, California sees it as a way to encourage the purchase of Hybrid vehicles.  The value of the amount of time that can be saved is never factored into any media comparison of Hybrids I have ever seen.

Finally, I would point to resale value as something the media overlooks.  A car is a horrible investment; you sink your money into it and the minute you drive it off the lot it starts depreciating.  Yet vehicles like the Prius have held excellent resale values; first as people wanted specific colors from the older models and second for people who are interested in the Hybrid technology but don't want to pay sticker.

And there is always the value in reducing your footprint at a time when our soldiers are dying in Iraq (Hummer H3, anyone?).  Not everyone can afford to pay for a Hybrid, and I think they don't make sense for everyone.  But when CNN is pumping out lists like this, you can't tell me that at $28,000 it's a bad option:



You find plenty of lists out there of cars that get the best fuel economy. Those lists are easy to produce, but they aren't really of much use... None of the top cars are hybrids. That's because, with their added cost, hybrids aren't really a good value from a purely economic standpoint.

Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI

Mileage: 27 city/37 highway

Toyota Camry

Mileage: 24 city/34 highway

Chevrolet Corvette

Mileage: 18 city/28 highway

Toyota Rav4

Mileage: 24 city/30 highway

Toyota Corolla

Mileage: 32 city/41 highway

So look to CNN as your source for stories such as "Woman captures sister's fiery death" (with video link) or "Nun killed by Priest 22 years ago."  But don't take them car shopping.

Originally posted to theKK on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 12:55 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  tips (9+ / 0-)

    isn't it tiresome to have to constantly counter the media's lies?

    GOP Corruption: takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'

    by theKK on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 12:53:01 PM PDT

  •  My Hybrid Economics (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mimi9, cskendrick

    Right now, the economics of hybrids don't justify their purchase on a comparison of gas savings alone. While you do enjoy improved gas mileage, you will need to drive an ungodly number of miles during the lifetime of your vehicle, or the cost of gas will need to go to an ungodly price (not that it won’t) to recoup your investment, i.e., the price premium for a hybrid.

    So you cannot consider—at least right now—the purchase of a hybrid on the basis of a savings on the cost of fuel.  However, oen might want to make an ecological or political statement in buying a hybrid by spending that premium with the manufacturer of the vehicle for the privilege of not spending as much with big oil.

    I the past few weeks, I’ve gone from an irrational desire to own the technology of the Prius (@$27,000 +tax and fees for 48-60 mpg) to the purchase of a new Toyota Matrix (@$17,500+tax and fees for 30-38 mpg) and a 2002 Honda Civic (@$10700 +tax and fees for 30-38 mpg). I would have dearly loved the Prius for its technology, but reason prevailed and allowed me to get two very fuel efficient cars for basically the same price as the Prius.

    If my total travel miles per year (for both vehicles combined) consist of 20000 miles at say 33 mpg average, that’s 606 gallons of gas for my travel needs.

    With the Prius I previously considered, and an older 1990 Toyota that gets 28 mpg average that’s 503 gallons of gas for my travel needs. The Prius fuel advantage in my case would be 103 gallons per year at $3.00 now or $309 savings.

    So, with gas prices at $3.00/gallon now, I could buy a Prius and save $300 a year on gas and need to run it for 10 years to recoup the $3000 difference between a new Prius and a comparable new Camry.

    If gas prices should go to $5.00/gallon (a real possibility), the Prius option would save $515 per year and would require six years pay off the $3000 Prius premium.

    If gas prices should go to $10.00/gallon, the Prius option would save $1030 per year and would require only three years to pay off the Prius premium. At this point the Prius option would look very attractive, because I typically keep a car for six or more years. However, if gas prices should go to $10.00/gallon, I would think by that time that there would be sufficient economic advantage to improve hybrid technology and to lower its cost.  Also there could come about a huge investment in public and rapid transit that would could reduce the need for my wife and I to drive ourselves a total of 20000 miles per year.

    •  SOME of us have other reasons for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      barbwires

      wantiung good gas mileage than just saving money on gas. Some of us want to protect the environment and help break the addiction to foreign oil. Those are two other solid reasons to spend more money for a Hybrid.

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:08:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's very noble, and we thank you (0+ / 0-)

        For your well-heeled leadership.

        The rest of us will have to settle for not paying a price premium for SUVs, just paying straight-value for fuel-efficient sedans.

        If it's okay with you, that is.

        I mean, it's okay with me, but I'm of no account.

        Confidence is high. I repeat: Confidence is high.

        by cskendrick on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:23:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What well-heeled leadership? (0+ / 0-)

          We are dead broke. We're living on $1200 a month (t rosie to $2100 once my husband starts getting full VA) Can't get a job down here in the SOuth you love so much  despite having strong quals int here fields.  I long for a Prius, but will settle for the money to fix our 16 year old Celica--which gets 45 mpg on highway driving, thank you very much. I made SURE it wsa relaible and envirnonmentally sound.

          Thanlk you for leaping to incorrect inconclusions.  I WILL buy a Prius when we can afford to, because it makes sense on a moral level to me as well as an economic one.  Kinda the same way I recycle, close off room from heat and air that I am not using, etc.

          My advice to you?  Check mpg BEFORE you buy.  Choose a car that fits your budget. The Cel;ica was a noit mroe than I oculd afford easily--but the reliability, the crashworthiness, and thempg made it worth a bit of sacrifice.  I'd just rather pay a bit more for reliability and mpg.  I'll give up something else.  

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:33:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Quite right. My bad. (0+ / 0-)

            I thought you had purchased a hybrid.

            I see now that it is a case that you would have bought a Prius, and will buy one, once you get the means to do so, but until then you are doing whatever it takes to optimize your car purchase value, and doing a darn good job at it in the meantime.

            Well, that's different in all sorts of ways.

            My apologies. I read you all wrong. :)

            Confidence is high. I repeat: Confidence is high.

            by cskendrick on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:43:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cskendrick

              I cannever be an elitist economically. My hsuband will be a nurse which means we'll live comfortably--but short of winning the lottery, that's as good as we'll get. I have spent too many years learning to stretch a penny into a dime (I know MANY recipes for beans and rice ane pasta--and some of them are favorites; we split a single chicken breast ebtween us--and often end up with a second meal from it) to ever be able to toss away money.

              The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

              by irishwitch on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:33:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  If you must know, I DIDN'T by a Civic Hybrid... (0+ / 0-)

                ..because around here (Charlotte) everyone drives like a NASCAR rookie, and the car was in my opinion dangerously slow on the get-up-and-go.

                So I got a Honda Accord stick-shift.

                I'm not quite sure it gets the mileage the sticker claims (26/34) so I went to the dealer today to register my concern; they maintain that the car needs to 'break in', become accustomed to my driving, and I to the car (more likely) before any serious diagnosis can be made.

                I said, fine. I'll give it a couple of months, but if the car doesn't meet its listed specs, I'm going to consider that a manufacturer's warranty issue and expect the dealer to make good on it, one way or the other.

                So I might get a Hybrid out of this anyway, as the warranty goes for three years. :)

                Confidence is high. I repeat: Confidence is high.

                by cskendrick on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:42:41 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Stick vs Auto For Economy (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Silent Lurker

                  I always thought conventional wisdom says one gets the best fuel economy with a stick shift (with all other things equal).  Apparently, with the latest Honda Civic (and perhaps the Accord as well), the automatic transmission provides the best economy by one or two mpg over the stick shift.

                  The newer automatic transmissions have electronic controls and programmability that optimize shifting and lock up in the highest gear so that there exists no slippage anywhere in the transmission that could cause a loss of transfer energy between the engine and the driving wheels. Had I had opted for the Honda Civic instead of the Toyota Matrix, I would have ordered the automatic transmission on the Civic.

                  As always, a lot of fuel economy comes from the discipline not to accelerate too fast, to anticipate stops, and to deaccelerate in a way that does not attempt to accelerate or even maintain road speed when you know that you need to stop ahead.

                  My employer forced all road people to take the Smith System driver training (about 20 years ago). It consisted of a three day course on the road with an instructor and with three students. We went through the most congested traffic areas in the city while driving and while the driver kept a running commentary of the Smith System rules he was using at the time. I think it really helped me to become a much safer driver and, as a bonus, a much more economical/ecological driver.

                  One of the things you learn in the Smith System is that you "get the big picture" by looking three cars ahead.  If you see that car slowing or stopping for a light, you simply back off the gas.  You don't necessarily brake, you just back of the gas until you get close enuogh to the guy in front to brake. By doing that you need to brake less.  The less braking you do, the less gas wasted heating up those metal discs and pads that cause you to stop. And if you use your brakes less, they also last longer.  I saw a certain zen to it.

        •  And my point, Your Snarkiness, (0+ / 0-)

          was that saving money isn't the ONLY valid reason for buying a hybrid.  There are others.  Was it truly necessary to be this nasty just because you have the incorrect impression that people who buy Priuses are rolling in money?  We aren't--but I'll take one old car and one Hybruid  over two new non-Hybrids. We only ave one dead car at the moment, but we expect Tobe able to give the car by next December--then we'll have a 15 year old car that should last another 50-100 K.  When he gets his nursing degree and we prepare to leave the area we'll likely buy a hybrid.   We'll only have one car payment.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:36:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nastiness is as nastiness does (0+ / 0-)

            I'm following your lead here...and about a dozen steps back.

            If I was the least rattled by your words

            Rest assured you would know it.

            If you were the least rattled by my words

            Rest assured everyone in the room would know it.

            But since we're getting along famously, here, everything's cool. :)

            Confidence is high. I repeat: Confidence is high.

            by cskendrick on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:45:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You love the South. (0+ / 0-)

              I hate it here, and i hate the Fundy-vangy culture and have had few positive experiences.  Youare  native and take my darling the culture as a personal affront. My comments ar ALWAYS made generally--and even most Southerners acknowledge that the South is pretty Red, extremely conservative, and VERY religiously intolerant (among white Southerners).  I find it almost hilarious that Southerners take it so personally. I lived in NYC for 5 years, love the place, but when people complain that people talk too fast,a re overly emotional, are terrible drivers, and get angry quickly--I usually nod. Because it's true. When people me Mainers ( a place I adore) are stand-offish, unfriendly and insular (as ion it's still 1050 when it comes to rca), I Willa gree with them, because theya re true. I may point out that the flip side of the standoffishness is the belief that it's nosy and impolite to discuss religion and that they prefer to get to know you over time rather than rushing into gushing friendship, but I agreewiththe points. And I don't call people who say that bigots and I don't attack them for it.

              What I write about is what I know--what has happened to me, and what I have observed. It is never meant to condmen all SOutherners--but the majority who follow the culture I have described are not folks I wan tto know better.  And I came down here expecting to like it, while my hsuband tried to warn me. And he grew up here.  I wish it were JUST my in-laws, but it's based on conversations in bookstores, overheard at estuarants and thelcoal news/.

              The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

              by irishwitch on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:39:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  To be honest... (0+ / 0-)

                I have no idea how we got on this Southern culture skid.

                Interesting and compelling a topic as it is, what with our having won the war with the North, and all. :)

                Confidence is high. I repeat: Confidence is high.

                by cskendrick on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:44:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I am not shrill (0+ / 0-)

                  nor am I scream--but I dont take crap from anybody. I was taught to fight back my Dad, an Irish Catholic liberal. I have noticed  that when a woman is passionate she's often called a bitch.

                  I am PROUD to be a bitch--and I give as good as I get. I dont play games, I don't flirt, and I don't manipulate.  I loathe Belle dom (whiter Northern or Southern, because there are some  up north) and I'd rather bec aleeda Bitch than a Belle any day.  

                  there is a bit of a double standard here. Hunter and Armando can rat and attack and be rude in diaries or comments--but women who do the same get criticized for the same qualities that are admirable in those MALE Kossacks. Sexual politics still create divisions here.

                  The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                  by irishwitch on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:51:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Not sure that's even remotely true (0+ / 0-)

                    Not with Mary Scott O'Connor just being drafted as the face of the blogosphere.

                    Confidence is high. I repeat: Confidence is high.

                    by cskendrick on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 04:02:38 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Disagree (0+ / 0-)

                      lookat all the flack she took for being out front and angry.  

                      Look at the reactions of men to some of the abortion and rape diaries--it's not just that they don't agree, it's that they NEED to prove the women wrong and to pound them into the dust. It's really amazing. The women recognize it--some of us have talked off the forum--but the men don't. I am always astonished when a liberal man bring su p the "high number of false convictions and false accusations of rape" and then cites some Men's Rights site. I don't think it's intentional at all, but we live in a society where women are STILL expected to defer to men, to be pleasant at all times, and to never complain.   We're raised that way.  It's very hard for a lot of women to speak up in a group setting at work, especially if she's contradicting a male who outranks her. We are socialized not to challenge authority figures, especially if they are male.

                      It's sumemd up in the old line "Men are aggressive. Women are bitchy."  It's why Repub men so loathe Hillary. She dares to challenge them without even the pretence of deference.  Instead they like soft-spoken women like Liddy DOle who is a Queen Bee--or Ann COulter, who is only bichy to men who, in their eyes deseve it--thinKS carlet O'Hara there.

                      I went to girl's schools from grades 7 through 12.  We didn't have that worry. I never learned to censor my speech in class.  When I went to college I was very pretty--but very unpopular because I was advanced placement and took classes with students 2 years older than myself, and it didn't occur to me not to argue with them.  However, once I started going to Sf cons--where the men LIKE women who speak up, not Barbie dolls--I had more guys than I Knew what to do with.  Venue changed, I didn't change.  

                      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                      by irishwitch on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 01:04:39 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Erm (0+ / 0-)

                    It's true that no one EVER criticizes me, but that's because I am special . . .

                    "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

                    by Armando on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 04:53:37 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  I think I said that with.... (0+ / 0-)

        Read the second paragraph.

        However, one might want to make an ecological or political statement in buying a hybrid by spending that premium with the manufacturer of the vehicle for the privilege of not spending as much with big oil.

        • ecological statement = protect the environment
        • political statement = help break addiction to foreign oil. Reduce the need to fund the U.S, Petroleum Protection Force, i.e, the U.S [Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines].
    •  Taxes (0+ / 0-)

      In many states and according to certain federal regs, a hybrid owner also gets a tax break for the year in which they purchase the car. When we purchased a hybrid in NYS at the end of 2004, there was no state sales tax in addition to a tax credit, and there was a chunky ($2,000) federal tax deduction.    

      •  State Tax Credit... (0+ / 0-)

        When I was pricing a Prius in NYS just a few weeks ago, there were only vague notions of a $3200 federal credit and no mention of a sales tax credit.

        There was this notion from the salesman that if I bought quickly that I might be able to get the $3200 credit, but only if I didn't get caught in the Alternative Minimum Tax, and only if I got my Prius before Toyota sold 60000 units (I think) this year.

        Coming from a car salesman, it sounded like I'd get a federal tax credit if I hurried to order, and the phase of the moon was full when the car I ordered was finally delivered. Not a real solid selling point for me.

        There was no mention of a state tax credit. This may no longer be valid.

        So, pen to paper, and real value compared to mileage hypes, I went for a 5-speed Toyota Matrix instead of a Prius. If I had been sure of the federal credit and the sales tax credit, I still don't think that the difference between the Matrix and the Prius would have been significant to financially justify the Prius at this time. But, of course, the technology part of me was screaming Prius.

    •  and on the other side of the coin (0+ / 0-)

      I had an Impala SS 2002 that my sister bought me when her husband died in an accident. She bought it at $16,000 for me cause she wanted my kids to be safe in our car.

      I have to drive 100 miles a day. Gas was costing me $75-80 a week. that's $300 to $400 a month.

      I traded in the paid for car for a used 2002 prius.
      Trade in on the Impala in great condidion with only 30,000 miles? $8,000. Cost of the used Prius? $15,000 ( 30,000 miles).
      Downpayment $2,000. Amount financed $5,000. Monthy car payment $150. Gas cost weekly $25. Gas costs monthly $100-$150. Monthly savings approx $100-200. Savings will be more as gas prices go up, but I also have free roadside service etc with this car and full 6 year 100,000 mile warrantee.

      The math shows me that I have realized savings by changing cars.

      Just my personal situation though. Others may have a different experience.

      We have no future because our present is too volatile. We only have risk management. The spinning of the given moments scenario. Pattern Recognition. ~W. Gibson

      by Silent Lurker on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:59:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You Benefitted From Depreciation (0+ / 0-)

        You paid probably 55% to 60% of that Prius' cost when new. You have a different basis from which to calculate the savings, and you had a different starting gas usage condition.

        All these things added up to a great move on your part.

        I saw a used 2003 Civic Hybrid whilst shopping, but even used, it had a $2,5000 premium over a like Civic with the same miles.  So we ended up with a 2002 Civic with 38mpg hwy for about $11,000 which was $5,000 less than the used 2003 Civic Hybrid.  You can buy a lot of gas for $5000, no matter what it costs.

        I may live long enough to get a hybrid (or shall I say some sort of more efficient or perhaps alternate fuel vehicle), but based on my most recent purchases that will give the manufacturers at least 10 to 12 years to improve their offerings.

        •  the ironic part is (0+ / 0-)

          I am a much safer and more aware driver in the prius than I ever was in the Impala.

          Nice little side effect there.

          I have never owned a new vehicle. The closest to new I get is 2 years old used, just to take advantage of the depreciation. In this case though, it kind of bit me in a way, because the gm cars had devalued so much when I traded mine in.

          It was during that extended "employee discount for everyone" thing they had going on. That pretty effectivly depreciated all their vehicles, new and used.
          Can you imagine spending $30,000 on a new truck only to see it the next month at $20,000? that would make me cry.

          We have no future because our present is too volatile. We only have risk management. The spinning of the given moments scenario. Pattern Recognition. ~W. Gibson

          by Silent Lurker on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 09:43:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  hydrogen technology... (0+ / 0-)

    I'm hoping someone will mfg an H2 vehicle soon.

    Hybrids aren't really a solution because they still use gas, which means we'll still be dependent on the Middle East Oil Cartel.

    In the late 1980s, I owned a Nissan Sentra that got about 40mpg. So here we are, twenty years later, and everyone is all excited to own a prius and get 50mpg. WTF. Some are saying the next gen hybrid might get 60mpg, if you're lucky. I currently drive a 1995 Camry that gets about 25-30mpg and a Sienna that gets 18-22.

    My dream is to have a hydrogen PEM vehicle and a solar-powered H2 machine hooked up into my garage. That way, I can turn H2O --> H2 + O2 using solar, then fill up my tank, drip out some water as I drive around town. For those long trips, I can refuel at a station, which can mfg its own H2 from local tap water. Then Big Oil will die out.

    I can dream...

    •  It's exactly like cries for new immigration laws (0+ / 0-)

      When they haven't even begun to squeeze efficiency out of the 'laws' (in this case, off-the-shelf, tried-and-true gasoline engine technologies).

      Confidence is high. I repeat: Confidence is high.

      by cskendrick on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:24:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's not just about the finanacial investment... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    barbwires, Silent Lurker

    I recently purchased a Toyota Prius.
    And yes, it was a little more than I wanted to pay for it and maybe even a little more than I could afford.
    But it's not just about the financial investment. There's the environmental investment.

    I have noticed a fun little fact about people's reactions to hearing I've purchased a Prius. It's just about possible to know someone's political leanings from their reaction.
    Republicans/Conservatives tend to say - oh, what a smart investment. You'll save lots of money on gas.
    Democrats/Liberals tend to say - oh, good for you (yes, just like the folks in South Park), you have a car that's good for the environment.

    The Prius produces 80% less emissions than regular cars. There's nothing better than stopping at a red light and hearing and feeling the car "shut down" as the hybrid battery kicks in. I sit at that light and know I'm not producing any emissions at that point.
    So my question is - where's the cost/benefit for that? In the long run, with 80% less emissions, aren't I saving more than just a little money now? If more people drove these types of cars wouldn't our cost to the environment be less?
    I know this is not a tangible savings for "right now" but it is and will be a savings nonetheless.
    Or am I taking too much of a long view as opposed to the "how much more money can I have in my wallet right now" view?

    Compassionate Conservatism is an oxymoron.

    by jazzeroo on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:19:02 PM PDT

    •  Untenable and unsupportable litmus test (0+ / 0-)

      Being concerned about the money is a human thing, not a Republican thing.

      Besides, when's the last time Republicans were good with money? :)

      Confidence is high. I repeat: Confidence is high.

      by cskendrick on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:30:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not saying... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cskendrick

        ...it's supportable, I'm just saying that my experience has been that responses to finding out I have a Prius have been straight down the party line, as I said.

        Coincidence?

        Maybe.
        Probably.

        But it is interesting.

        And good point about Republicans not being so great with money.

        Compassionate Conservatism is an oxymoron.

        by jazzeroo on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 04:03:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  and your kids ( if you have any) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jazzeroo

      love the "stealth mode" when it shuts down into electric mode. Something about being able to drive up with no one hearing apeals to them.

      wonder why...

      /e goes to check on her driving age children...

      We have no future because our present is too volatile. We only have risk management. The spinning of the given moments scenario. Pattern Recognition. ~W. Gibson

      by Silent Lurker on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 04:02:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The first time... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Silent Lurker

        ...I drove it and I stopped at a light, it went into "stealth mode" and I freaked out. I thought the thing had stalled. I was looking around trying to see if I had to turn it back out or something.
        The light changed and I stepped on the accelerator and it took off.
        It was the first of many times I grinned like an idiot while driving it.

        Compassionate Conservatism is an oxymoron.

        by jazzeroo on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 04:06:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yah the first time that happened to me (0+ / 0-)

          i thought the car stalled out. The only way i knew I was still running was the odometer and PRNDB LED lights were still on.

          We have no future because our present is too volatile. We only have risk management. The spinning of the given moments scenario. Pattern Recognition. ~W. Gibson

          by Silent Lurker on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 04:15:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I read the CNN article (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silent Lurker, jazzeroo

    and it made me barf.  It neglects completely the pollution advantages of hybrid vehicles; the Prius is very close to a zero emissions car in traffic.  

    It also assumes all of these cars get their advertised mileage, but a lot depends on the driving style of the driver and the trafic patterns--Prii (if this is the correct plural)get excellent mileage in heavy traffic, and if you live in a heavy traffic area they provide more significant fuel savings advantages.  We do a lot of bumper to bumper traffic crawls in Northern VA, and with the advent of warmer weather my Prius is getting about 47 mpg average.  

    Democrats give you the Bill of Rights; Republicans sell you a bill of goods!

    by barbwires on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:23:31 PM PDT

    •  Same here... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      barbwires

      ...in Northern New Jersey, lots of traffic and so far - on only 3 tanks of gas in the month and a half I've owned it (just went over 1000 miles) I've been getting just over 45 miles per gallon.

      And how can that be bad?

      Compassionate Conservatism is an oxymoron.

      by jazzeroo on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 04:17:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  better solutions (0+ / 0-)

    cleaner, cheaper, Diesels in small car packages, like in Europe and South America.

    And then, add in some cheaper electric assist.

    This would probably get MPG to 60-70 or so.

    That's starting to make a difference.

    Fascism is indistinguishable from any parody thereof.

    by mbkennel on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:27:25 PM PDT

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