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Last year was a good year for global warming--from a PR perspective.  

There was An Inconvenient Truth, this TIME cover here and that Newsweek cover there.  Blowhards like Neil Cavuto railed against Happy Feet for what they shrilly decried as "far left" propaganda.  There was also, unfortunately, the discovery that  "a giant ice shelf the size of 11,000 football fields has snapped free from Canada's Arctic."

But the general notion of global warming, disputed for the past decade by pundits, lobbyists and those whose paychecks depended on it--but not by scientists--suddenly shifted dramatically.  Maybe it was Katrina, or the weird temperatures or even just a moment of political serendipity, but as we head into cherry blossoms in January, I'd like to call your attention to the fact that the conversation is moving into the heartland in a very real way: namely that the early repercussions of global warming are beginning to hit home for the "red blooded" American outdoorsmen (and women) who lift up their rifles and fishing rods to freedom--and they are beginning to see the handwriting on the wall.


A man battles to free his ice fishing lodge from the jaws of the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American People."

We've all seen pictures of retreating glaciers, melting ice sheets and stranded polar bears, but The New York Times reports on something that may just hit a little closer to home.  The ol' fishing hole--or lack thereof, due to warmer winter temperatures the last few years.

Warm Temperatures Chill the Ice Fishing Season

Unseasonably warm weather in recent winters has Buffalo, a frequent target of jibes about snow and cold, bucking its Arctic reputation. But without freezing temperatures, there has been no ice fishing, sending a chill through those whose livelihoods depend on it.

The result has been low sales for the bait shops, suppliers and manufacturers who depend on the ice fisherman, and has led to the cancellation of ice fishing competitions that brought in money and visitors. A tournament in Michigan was canceled this January, and the New York Trap Attack, canceled last year, looked unlikely to proceed.  The weather is simply too warm for the ice to stay frozen, and in some cases, it never froze at all.

Continued
"We have never felt two years back to back with bad ice," said Mike Smith, the Trap Attack tournament director. "Nobody has ever remembered an entire ice belt with that poor of ice."

While the volvo-driving, latte-drinking, sushi-eating liberal set paid their $10.75 to see Al Gore on the big screen and recognized Katrina as the handwriting on the wall, even more reluctant Americans are slowly awakening to the ripple effects beginning to make themselves felt.  And all the sports and activities we love to enjoy outdoors (and that some redstaters love to shove in our faces) will be the very thing that illustrates the issue of global warming to a number of people who have seen it thus far as a liberal pet issue.  As weather irregularities begin to hit people in their pocket books, the issue we are facing will become infinitely more discernable.  And those who have resisted the issue politically will eventually have to come to grips with it personally: the hunters, fishermen, farmers and outdoorsmen who recreate and live in areas where facing climate change firsthand will have a profound impact.    

And it is not just a few, isolated areas that will be affected.  In the case of ice fishing, the shifting of temperatures will affect a number of states, including several traditionally red areas:

Continued
Smith described the traditional southern boundary of the ice belt —a region suitable for ice fishing — as running from the East Coast along the northern Pennsylvania state line and continuing west to Montana, taking in parts of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Iowa. But in recent years the line has run roughly through the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, eliminating two-thirds of the states in the territory.

And this is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.  While many hunters and fishermen pride themselves on being stewards of the environment (including more than a few Kossacks) there are a number of their neighbors who are in for a rather rude awakening.  It is hard to predict the many ways in which global warming will be felt, or what the ultimate costs will be, but expect the consequences to continue to manifest themselves in areas where political resistance to the idea has been high.  It will no longer be quite so cute to snicker about how wonderful it will be to have rain in the desert and Florida winters in Montana.  

Because this is where the debate will take place.  Ownership of the stasis has already moved from the lobbying firms and the think tanks to the people and the popular culture; and now it is moving into the heartland, which, with our democratic majority may lay the ground work for serious redress.  

But we are not there yet.  While the story of how temperature changes are affecting ice fishing is an important indication of where changes in voter attitudes on environmental issues are likely to shift, this is no electoral quick fix.

They Still Don’t Get It

A numbing thought no one seemed ready to concede was the possibility that the lack of ice fishing could be part of a larger, more permanent pattern of global warming.

"We hope Al Gore is wrong," Vick said.

But Al Gore is right, of course, and it will be short order until denizens of even the reddest areas of the country wake up to that Inconvenient Truth.

Originally posted to theKK on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:07 PM PST.

Poll

Will they ever get it?

23%43 votes
76%137 votes

| 180 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  I Doubt There Are Patterns That Can Sway (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hekebolos, blueyedace2, lgmcp

    southern redstaters, but by golly we can sure blue-up a number of northern purple states.

    Maybe a few tropical infestations moving into the South would help. Sooner or later it's bound to happen.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:09:12 PM PST

    •  75-degree temperatures in January (5+ / 0-)

      in LA.  And forecasts for this summer of 120.  That'll bake the valley in an absurd fashion.

      My friend is running a marathon for cancer research. Help sponsor her--tax deductible too!

      by Dante Atkins on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:11:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And that is the hope... (0+ / 0-)

      that we can get the northern purple states that are both affected by these changes and have a tradition (and to a certain degree an economy) that will make them want to do something about it.  You saw how much public opinion shifted over the past year--imagine the impact this could have.

      Of course we will never get that core contingent of red red southern voters, but hey, Dick Cheney could shoot them in the face and they still wouldn't get it.

    •  Tropical infestations, and opossums moving (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Winnie, blueyedace2, kurt
      moving into Minnesota?

      possums
      don't hibernate, and their tails are hairless, which means they're susceptible to freezing temps but yet, here they are.

      J

    •  Respectfully Disagree (5+ / 0-)

      There are patterns, although it may take a little longer, which will wake up the southern reds.  Things like widespread Lyme Disease due to tick populations not being killed off with a hard freeze; other major insect borne disease problems due to same; massive changes in fish populations as coastal waters become too warm for the types of fish they have typically supported; potentially more shark attacks as their food sources vanish; die-offs of other marine life such as shellfish due to rising acidity of ocean waters, brutally hot summers which fry lawns, kill shrubs and trees;  more Katrina's.  It will happen, it is just a matter of time.

      •  goddamn (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        klk

        love bugs won't ever die now!

        Just wait til they start moving north- with no nateral predators and no cold weather to kill them...

        We have no future because our present is too volatile. We only have risk management. The spinning of the given moments scenario. Pattern Recognition. ~W. Gibson

        by Silent Lurker on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 03:01:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I hope so.. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wee Mama, klk

        well, i hope for minimal damage but maximum awareness, which i guess is sort of a catch 22.  

      •  I don't think so (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        klk

        I mean they'll see it happening but will go down claiming that earth has natural ice ages / warm ages.
        I argue on the local paper for Red California the sacramento Bee. The goodol boys will never get it.

        Much Anothing About Bears

        What did the Polar Bears do when the climate was much warmer than it is now, like between the 1st century BC, when the Romans invaded the British Isles and planted winegrapes which lasted till around 1300 AD. There are no winegrapes in the British Isles presently. It is thought that that the cooling around 1300 is responsible for the shifting to making beer and distilled spirits from grain which was available. Global Alarmist's need to study a little climate history. If climate history is taken seriously,then in the last 2000 years it has been warmer for over 60% of the time. Do our Greenhouse Gases affect Mars, because the ice at the poles of Mars is melting too. It just might be the Sun's Radiation is the problem as a recent paper from the prestegious Max Planck Institute suggests.

        3 out of 6 people found this comment helpful.

        Was this comment helpful? Yes | No

        Brannigan at 10:07 AM PST Sunday, January 7, 2007 wrote:

        This article is utter and complete nonsense!

        Global warming is a fact. However, it is NOT A FACT that it is manmade or that we have any control over it. It is now also a known fact that global warming happened some time in the middle ages when Greenland was actually green and colonies were set up there by the Vikings. Polar bears survived through that warming period and will suvive again. If 20% of the ice is gone, then that means 80% of it is left, shrinking their hunting grounds to be sure, but still able to survive. Wonder if it has ever occurred to any of these so-called "experts" that part of the shrinking polar bear population might just be the fact that humans are studying them and gawking at them continually, including tourists who come by the busload. LEAVE THE POLAR BEARS ALONE, and the stress on them might be lessened enough for them to actually survive even if the ice shrinks.

        2 out of 3 people found this comment helpful.

        Was this comment helpful? Yes | No

        jimmyrick at 10:56 AM PST Sunday, January 7, 2007 wrote:

        It's not as if there haven't been plenty of studies debunking

        or disputing global warming. The problem is that the dishonest left-wing media either takes no notice of them, denigrates them, or mentions them only briefly as an effort to appear even-handed. No self-respecting scientist, other than those on the payroll of environmental organizations, will assert there is any unusual global warming. The theory is that "greenhouse" gases such as carbon dioxide generated by the human use of so-called "fossil fuels" are "causing" global warming, but CO2 is a natural part of the Earth's ecology. All plants, trees, crops and other vegetation are dependent on CO2 for growth. Also ignored is the fact that water vapor is a major so-called greenhouse gas, along with the constant emissions from the Earth's many active volcanoes. These and other factors are completely beyond the control of mankind. Virtually every environmental editorial or opinion piece published by the Bee asserts human-caused global warming as an indisputable fact. This is fraudulent.

        3 out of 6 people found this comment helpful.

        Was this comment helpful? Yes | No

        jimmyrick at 11:26 AM PST Sunday, January 7, 2007 wrote:

        It is a provable fact that over 99% of the plant and animal species

        that ever existed on this planet became extinct before mankind established civilizations upon this planet. The extinction of existing species and and the establishment of new species has been a continuing natural occurrence throughout this planet's history. The continuing global warming insanity and the logically fallacious assertions that mankind is the chief cause of the demise of every species upon the planet are based upon politics rather than reason and hard science. The global-warming doomsayers are more interested in destroying the U.S. economy than they are in saving polar bears. They put a higher priority on preventing U.S. energy independence than they do on "preserving the environment". If the Kyoto Protocols are so desperately needed to save the planet, why are the China and India - two of the world's largest polluters - exempt from those provisions? Why do most of the EU nations exceed limits the Protocol places on them? Because global warming is an anti-U.S. con game.

        2 out of 5 people found this comment helpful.

        Was this comment helpful? Yes | No

        rebelnet at 11:28 AM PST Sunday, January 7, 2007 wrote:

        There's no evidence that industrial emissions are.....

        altering the atmosphere and melting ice caps in the polar regions any faster than usual. The earth is a living entity. It spews out billions of tons of global warming "pollutants" each year. We also know that wars and wickedness also have an effect on the earth as it is alive and acknowledges sorrow. Any small change we make as humans is meaningless if we continue to ignore God and destroy each other. The earth will not recover through our efforts to combat global warming if we're out of touch with the God who created it.

        1 out of 3 people found this comment helpful.

        Was this comment helpful? Yes | No

        wmartin46 at 12:34 PM PST Sunday, January 7, 2007 wrote:

        Taxpayers Should Not Be Expected To Mitigate Effects of Climate Change.

        It is a real shame that the SacBee’s editorialists do not seem to have taken Geology 101, where they would have learned about the many ice ages. The Ice came (without man being on the planet), and the ice retreated thousands of years later (without man being on the plane)t. There was no endangered species list then, and somehow, nature ran its course. Species come, and species go. That is how Nature works. Geologists do not know how many species have lived on the earth since life began billions of years ago. However, the general sense is that more than twice the current number of living species evolved, and then became extinct â€" before man appeared. Having the US Government (meaning the taxpayers) responsible for stopping evolution and natural cycles of earth climate change is insane. Time to change this law and let nature free to operate as it sees fit.

        2 out of 3 people found this comment helpful.

        Was this comment helpful? Yes | No

        coathout at 12:53 PM PST Sunday, January 7, 2007 wrote:

        Junk Science Strikes Again

        The Center for Biological Diversity certainly likes to tailor their "facts" to suit their case. According to Mitch Taylor, a polar bear biologist, a reduction in sea ice provdes better habitat for seals which are the polar bears main food source. Less ice means more sunlight producing more phytoplankton which in turn increases the supply of other food sources and longer growing seasons produce more blueberries which the bears love to gorge on. Additionally of the 13 populations of polar bears found in Canada 11of them are stable or increasing. Although the current population of bears is said to have to dwindled to 25,000 or less, the truth is that a half-century ago the populations were only 8,000 to 10,000 polar bears.

        3 out of 6 people found this comment helpful.

        Was this comment helpful? Yes | No

        I think it is quite important to change their minds, as unfortunately they vote. Thats why we could not get rid of John Doolittle in November.

    •  When they start getting malaria n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Be very kind, for everyone you know is fighting a great battle.

      by Wee Mama on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 04:24:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's really getting hard not to notice (6+ / 0-)

    when it's 72 degrees in January...in New York City.

    Which it was, on Saturday.  

    Joe Lieberman likes to be called an "Independent Democrat". I like being called a "sexual dynamo".

    by Arjun Jaikumar on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:11:16 PM PST

  •  Gah. (12+ / 0-)

    I hate to say this, but it's their own damn fault.  If they had not let their ideological hatred blind them to the fact that environmentalist want to take care of the environment so that everyone can enjoy it, then maybe they would have gotten on the train five or ten years ago.  Now this degradation is going to be largely irreversible (or at least it will take quite some time to reverse).

    It sucks and hopefully we can correct it quickl.  But the RedLanders who denied denied denied the effects of global warming have killed their own hobbies.  I pity the people whose livelihoods are endangered and any affected who have tried to vote for people that would improve global warming.

    But states that have sent Republicans to power for years are reaping what they sowed.  I refuse to be the forgiving and polite liberal regarding this.  They broke it; now they can't fish in it.  Maybe next time they'll listen.  Yeah- right.

    Lobbyists need Republicans like pimps need whores.

    by electricgrendel on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:12:26 PM PST

    •  I agree with you (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sherri in TX, eaglecries

      to a point, but then at the same time, the more of them who get it now and start changing things, the better.

      •  Until the next big ideological passion play (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dotcommodity, collegekid318

        We saw it with Vietnam.  We've seen it with global warming.  They hew to a position that everyone of logic and reason says is disastrous, then they cling to it and hiss and spit at us while their pet idea drags them further and further down.

        Then they jump ship and expect liberals (who were right all along) to say "Well, gee shucks.  Glad you finally agree with me.  Let's not talk about when you called me a Communist-terrorist-treehugger-monster-acceptable-target-for-elimination.  Can't we be friends?"  And we do.

        Then they call us weak and tell everyone how we shouldn't have government.  And people listen; then they find another disastrous idea and call us whatever is the slander du jour.  Then it blows up in their faces.

        I'm just sick of it.  So fuck their ice fishing and late realizations. :)

        Lobbyists need Republicans like pimps need whores.

        by electricgrendel on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:30:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, well, unfortunately for that approach... (4+ / 0-)

      ... we have to live on the same planet with them.

      Maybe they broke it, but it wasn't only theirs that they broke.

      America will never again be the land of the free... Until she again becomes the home of the brave.

      by Ducktape on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:36:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dotcommodity

        Fact of the matter is that the people who have denied global warming, derided it and fought against preventing it need to be told, over and over and over again that they did so.  That they prevented the steps that would have prevented this.

        Welcome them as allies now?  Sure.  That's great.  But forgive them?  Not yet; perhaps eventually.  But their hubris has done this and they need to be reminded of that lest they let it happen again.

        Lobbyists need Republicans like pimps need whores.

        by electricgrendel on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 03:18:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Global-warming deniers are mostly hypocrites (15+ / 0-)

    OK, there's a few true believers (actually dis-believers).  But for most of them, I suspect, know in their hearts that it is all too true, no matter how vehement their verbal denials.  

    They simply don't want to admit it in public. Because that would mean admitting they don't care.  Admitting they are selfish.  Admitting that this year's profits, and conveniences, trumps the well-being of future generations.  Including that of their own descendents.  Yes, they'd rather live cushy that protect their children.  Who would want to admit that in public?

    Meanwhile plenty of childless folk like me are busy turning down thermostats, driving hybrids, installing fluorescent bulbs, and so on.  Doing our little bit to help THEIR children.  

    HOW TO SUBSCRIBE TO NMkos-L Email listserv@list.unm.edu Leave Subject blank In body type: Subscribe NMKOS-L optionally add First Last `Kosname'

    by lgmcp on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:12:34 PM PST

    •  more like (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, dotcommodity

      professional liars. The people on ExxonMobil's payroll with science degrees denouncing global warming or alternative energy are generally smart enough to know the truth. . . but their paychecks depend on lying to the public.

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:54:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Heres the organizations Exxon funded to lie (5+ / 0-)

        about global warming per this site from Greenpeace

        60/Sixty Plus Association
        Accuracy in Academia
        Accuracy in Media
        Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty
        Africa Fighting Malaria
        Air Quality Standards Coalition
        Alexis de Tocqueville Institution
        Alliance for Climate Strategies
        American Coal Foundation
        American Conservative Union Foundation
        American Council for Capital Formation Center for Policy Research
        American Council on Science and Health
        American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research
        American Enterprise Institute-Brookings Joint Center for Regulatory Studies
        American Friends of the Institute for Economic Affairs
        American Legislative Exchange Council
        American Petroleum Institute
        American Policy Center
        American Recreation Coalition
        American Spectator Foundation
        Americans for Tax Reform
        Arizona State University Office of Cimatology
        Aspen Institute
        Association of Concerned Taxpayers
        Atlantic Legal Foundation
        Atlas Economic Research Foundation
        Blue Ribbon Coalition
        Capital Legal Foundation
        Capital Research Center and Greenwatch
        Cato Institute
        Center for American and International Law
        Center for Environmental Education Research
        Center for Security Policy
        Center for Strategic and International Studies
        Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise
        Center for the New West
        Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change
        Centre for the New Europe
        Chemical Education Foundation
        Citizens for A Sound Economy and CSE Educational Foundation
        Citizens for the Environment and CFE Action Fund
        Clean Water Industry Coalition
        Climate Research Journal
        Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow
        Communications Institute
        Competitive Enterprise Institute
        Congress of Racial Equality
        Consumer Alert
        Cooler Heads Coalition
        Council for Solid Waste Solutions
        DCI Group
        Defenders of Property Rights
        Earthwatch Institute
        ECO or Environmental Conservation Organization
        European Enterprise Institute
        ExxonMobil Corporation
        Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies
        Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment
        Fraser Institute
        Free Enterprise Action Institute
        Free Enterprise Education Institute
        Frontiers of Freedom Institute and Foundation
        George C. Marshall Institute
        George Mason University, Law and Economics Center
        Global Climate Coalition
        Great Plains Legal Foundation
        Greening Earth Society
        Harvard Center for Risk Analysis
        Heartland Institute
        Heritage Foundation
        Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace, Stanford University
        Hudson Institute
        Illinois Policy Institute
        Independent Commission on Environmental Education
        Independent Institute
        Institute for Biospheric Research
        Institute for Energy Research
        Institute for Regulatory Science
        Institute for Senior Studies
        Institute for the Study of Earth and Man
        Institute of Humane Studies, George Mason University
        Interfaith Stewardship Alliance
        International Council for Capital Formation
        International Policy Network - North America
        International Republican Institute
        James Madison Institute
        Junkscience.com
        Landmark Legal Foundation
        Lexington Institute
        Lindenwood University
        Mackinac Center
        Manhattan Institute for Policy Research
        Media Institute
        Media Research Center
        Mercatus Center, George Mason University
        Mountain States Legal Foundation
        National Association of Neighborhoods
        National Black Chamber of Commerce
        National Center for Policy Analysis
        National Center for Public Policy Research
        National Council for Environmental Balance
        National Environmental Policy Institute
        National Legal Center for the Public Interest
        National Mining Association
        National Policy Forum
        National Wetlands Coalition
        National Wilderness Institute
        New England Legal Foundation
        Pacific Legal Foundation
        Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy
        Peabody Energy
        Property and Environment Research Center, formerly Political Economy Research Center
        Public Interest Watch
        Reason Foundation
        Reason Public Policy Institute
        Science and Environmental Policy Project
        Seniors Coalition
        Shook, Hardy and Bacon LLP
        Small Business Survival Committee
        Southeastern Legal Foundation
        Stanford University GCEP
        Statistical Assessment Service (STATS)
        Tech Central Science Foundation or Tech Central Station
        Texas Public Policy Foundation
        The Advancement of Sound Science Center, Inc.
        The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition
        The Annapolis Center for Science-Based Public Policy
        The Justice Foundation (formerly Texas Justice Foundation)
        The Locke Institute
        United for Jobs
        University of Oklahoma Foundation, Inc.
        US Russia Business Council
        Virginia Institute for Public Policy
        Washington Legal Foundation
        Weidenbaum Center on the Economy, Government, and Public Policy
        Western Fuels
        World Climate Report

  •  Wait til the summer (5+ / 0-)

    when the plague of black flies, hornets, and other assorted nastied not killed off the cold come out...

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it -- GB Shaw

    by kmiddle on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:12:46 PM PST

  •  World Cup ski races cancelled in Europe (4+ / 0-)

    But on the other hand, we are expecting a major powder dump here on the Wasatch Front tomorrow.

    I was going to ride my bike to work today, but the south winds are blowing in ahead of the storm and I'm too fat to ride into them.

  •  These are the things (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Spit, Winnie, blueyedace2, lgmcp

    that people will notice and not all of them are threatening, but they are out-of-the-ordinaty enough to get people thinking. Then we need to get them to think about what the world will be like in 50 years and then 100. Some will shrug is off with a what do I care I'll be dead, but others will think immediately of their grandchildren or grandchildren to be.

    I must also say that I have been studying environmental impacts for more than 30 years and this winter took my appreciation to another level -- the change is moving way faster than I had ever imagined was possible.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:18:25 PM PST

  •  I am going to start buying the funny light bulbs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    horsewithnoname, blueyedace2

    and I am going to tell my wife that (as long it's not snowing), I am going to ride my bike to work at least 2 days a week and she has to deal with the kids if I'm a little later than usual.

    But how are we going to deal with all the carbon emissions from China?

    In China, if you suggest cutting into a People's Liberation Army general's profits to install pollution controls; you end up chained to a machine in a prison labor camp for 18 hours a day making bike parts and ski gear for Utahrd.

    •  I would suggest this (7+ / 0-)

      Sign trade agreements that only allow China to sell to the US if they have pollution controls.

      Disease is a liberal plot.

      by otto on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:21:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the bad news here is that (0+ / 0-)

        our economy is largely kept afloat via Chinese investment. . . if we don't keep spending money there, they're probably going to pull the plug.

        Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

        by alizard on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:55:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Isn't most of Shenzen pretty close to water? (0+ / 0-)

          Either the Pacific or the Pearl River?

          You'd figure that they would not want melting polar ice caps to flood all their prison labor camps.

          •  the real problem here is that (0+ / 0-)

            China is emulating our 19th century robber baron capitalist model... complete with environmental and labor abuses.

            People are beginning to realize that this is unsustainable, but the Beijing government claims that they can't stop it., which I translate to mean they don't want to stop bribes working their way up the food chain.

            When things get to the point where nobody will buy Chinese products over this, they'll stop, and given current trends, this is only a matter of time, somebody will organize a "boycott China" campaign sooner or later.

            Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

            by alizard on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 06:39:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Actually the funny little light bulbs plus a few (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CSI Bentonville
      other lifestyle changes can make a lot of difference if enough of us do it.

      A few months ago I changed every light bulb in our place to the energy saving funny little bulbs. Actually I also have more light as a result without burning as much energy.

      We have also set the thermostat down on the furnace and up on the AC both by a few degrees. That takes a bit of getting use to, but then is not so bad. The alternative could be far worse.

      I am still a bit shocked at the number of cars that I will see sitting parked and running instead of shutting the car off.  I use to do that back when gas prices was below a 1$ a gal, and before I was aware of how serious the global warming was getting but no more.

      The wife and I, there are just the two of us, have started cooking a bit larger meal in most cases and by doing that we only have to warm up the next meal thereby spending  less energy.

      While these small things alone will never be enough to reverse it there are a lot of things we can do that can perhaps slow the process until we can get out nation and the world to take the correct actions.

      I dream of the America that can be and not the one that it is.

      by eaglecries on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 03:03:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Meth addicts helped end global warming? (3+ / 0-)

        Thanks to meth addicts and gang members, not too many people leave their cars running in the winter to warm up and then go back inside around here any more.

        Lots of cars were ending up in Chop Shops on cold days.

      •  Everytime i see a friend or family member (3+ / 0-)

        engaging in wasteful behavior (running the car, or the water when they brush their teeth) I just tell them "Somewhere, Al Gore is crying.  Stop making Al Gore cry."

        •  We just bought a house (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Major Danby, CSI Bentonville

          Last week, I get a call from my friend, "Hey, me and Miss P wanna come by and see the house."  Great, I learned they just had lunch together, about 20 minutes away.  While I'm outside trying to decide which paint stripper was more organic and lower VOC, up roll my two friends in separate SUVs.  Mouth opened, head shaking, I welcomed them to my new home, "Hello planet killers, I guess my babies will never know what a blue sky looks like!"

          Black by popular demand!

          by fabooj on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 04:59:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah but (0+ / 0-)

      the amount of pollution they produce is nothing compared to what we do. It simply doesn't even compare to the huge amount of shit we produce every day.

  •  but wait, didn't (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueyedace2

    w say there was no such thing as global warming?

    I'm sure I saw that on faux news sometime.

    and I believe everything I see on tv...or hear from the mouth of w.

    sorry. must wash keyboard and fingers with bleach now.

    The moment there is suspicion about a person's motives, everything he does becomes tainted - Gandhi

    by kriser on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:19:50 PM PST

  •  Thin Ice (5+ / 0-)

    The people that argue against Global Warming are on thin ice. They have to keep ignoring the realities around them. Since science is coming down heavily on the side of reality, they have to deny both science and reality. Now that some churches are talking about the Stewards of the Earth they are losing it on all sides.

    We need Gore to run! He understands this better than anyone.

    This President is in a league of his own. The BUSH league!

    by Tuba Les on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:20:08 PM PST

    •  Against Mitt Romney (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tuba Les

      You'd figure that a guy who made rich ski resort operators even richer would be down with slowing global warming.

      Tell the Republicans you know to vote for Romney in the primaries.

      The black diamond run they save may be their own.

  •  Golfed last week in WI (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Winnie, hoolia, blueyedace2

    the greens were coming in, you notice that. One rain and freeze will kill them all, and my perennials.

    Hoping for snow, but I think I better get some straw.

  •  When I was a kid (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hoolia, el dorado gal, blueyedace2, lgmcp

    so long ago... we used to look forward to safe ice (at least for walking) a couple of weeks into December. When I got out of the navy, it was the week before christmas for first ice and the great fishing that went with that and the week between christmas and new years for the shanty and tipups to get out for pike and walleye.  The last few years it's been well into January for first ice.  Now it's going to be late January before the requisite couple of inches. This has been noticeable at the bait shops, but they're blaming it on El Nino rather than climate change. A lot of the true believers are also ice fishers and it's going to take a couple of years of this to prove it to them, I'm afraid.

    A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

    by dougymi on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:23:07 PM PST

  •  Perhaps the most amazing thing (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Winnie, blueyedace2, LostInTexas, Overseas

    I cannot believe that normal, everyday people spend so many hours and words trying to deny that there is anything like global warming.  

    What do they have to gain?  They get to agree with someone who actually will make millions of dollars off of oil.  I guess if they just want to be someone who supports millionaires and billionaires, they scored.  

    Disease is a liberal plot.

    by otto on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:23:34 PM PST

    •  What do they have to gain? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Spit, alizard, LostInTexas

      Blissful ignorance. No guilt. No reason to change their ways.Permission to keep on doing what they have been doing. Acknowledging global warming, means you have a responsibility to do something.

      Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often, and for the same reason..unknown

      by Sherri in TX on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:50:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I actually think it's more complex (0+ / 0-)

        Someone here once said that there is a real difference between us and them in brain function: we have imagination and they don't.

        We extrapolate from things, see a pattern and see where it's going.

        They really don't believe it's happening. Nothing can happen that wasn't always that way. Change makes them extremely anxious, because theres some block on their extrapolating ability.

        In their minds, all scientists are inherently full of it, and therefore anyone who goes along with scientists is really just trying to harm the economy.

        Thats what they think is behind what we say.

        So I try to really push the economic advantage of solutions when arguing with them. Point out the costs of doing nothing about it, and the business opportunities that can arise from solving it.

        •  There are a lot of moderate liberals who refuse (0+ / 0-)

          to believe it, too. (I know: I work with them.)

          They just don't want to.

          It's not cool - only Dirty Fucking Hippies and Wild-Eyed Fanatics believe in Global Warming.

          Plus, they would have to give up their SUVs and actually do something besides sneer at George Bush once in a while.

          "Don't be a janitor on the Death Star!" - Grey Lady Bast (change @ for AT to email)

          by bellatrys on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 05:02:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Outdoors sports enthusiasts (10+ / 0-)

    Are a natural demographic ripe for the plucking.  They are already pissed at Dubya's public land give-away to the energy companies.  With global warming causing fishing populations to diminish and herds to move for cooler climbs, hunting and fishing are going to be left to the 'Cheneys' who can afford to hunt on private stocked reserves.  You average beer-swilling hunter can't afford that, and many rely on hunting to supplement their food budget.

    The Democratic Party needs to adopt a sane environmental policy, research into alternate fuels and a clear policy on the Second Amendment - calling it valid and pledging to protect it.  These guys would come around.

    That [the right-wing is] always wrong is a feature, not a bug. - Kos

    by RichM on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:24:01 PM PST

    •  The Party of PETA and the ELF (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      duckhunter, LynneK

      Republicans like to lie and say that the Democrats are the party of PETA and the Earth Liberation Front.

      People who burn down ski lodges are terrorists who need to be in prison for long periods of time and Democrats should make sure that outdoor enthusiasts know this.

      •  Absolutely (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LynneK

        I am sympathetic to several ideas coming from those causes (conversely, I am not sympathetic some of their other ideas, like farm raised mink), but when they intentionally destroy property or worse risk life, then they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

        That [the right-wing is] always wrong is a feature, not a bug. - Kos

        by RichM on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:31:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  LOL (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RichM, trashablanca, duckhunter

      that quail hunting expedition (along with the face shooting incident) and the publicity from the canned hunts was a godsend to progressive outdoors people in the north. We used that against cheney a lot. We don't do the canned hunts up here. You can't imagine the fallout from the computer hunting fiasco here in MI. The canned hunts might fly in TX but here we don't do it. I'm sure it's the same way in most northern states. That's a rich man's activity (I won't call it a sport) and not considered very sportsmanlike.  

      I don't know if it changed any votes but it sure contributed to a loss of respect for cheney. If he was on the ballot, it would have lost him quite a few votes for sure.  It was an embarrassment.

      A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

      by dougymi on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:33:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You are very right in your conclusions but I .... (0+ / 0-)

      really take offense at attaching the descriptor "beer swilling" to average hunter. Fisherman yes but not hunter.  It was hunters who initiated the conservation movement and they have been lead astray.  Yes, hunters and fisherman would come back around but unfortunately the NRA has somehow morphed into the defender of the hunting tradition in the US.  Ant-gun = Anti-hunting.

    •  There are very, very, very few if any hunters.... (0+ / 0-)

      if any at all that could afford or are in a position to hunt to feed themselves or even trully set off some of their grocery costs.  One would more likely go broke.

      •  Hmm (0+ / 0-)

        dunno. I don't hunt, but I've had quite a few friends who did -- some claimed that it helped considerably, but they were going for larger game (deer, moose).

        I've never considered what the balance would wind up being.

        •  If your hunting to feed your family you'd........ (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Spit

          be better off working for minimum wage (new or old) than spending a day in a deer stand.  It really does not add up at all - several years ago an outdoor humorist did an article calculating the cost of his deer and Christmas goose it was funny because it was true.  But if a man was poachin' that would be a different story.

        •  not everyone who hunts catches (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Spit

          I know hunters who spend the whole season outside and catch nothing, some years.

          Other years, they catch 2 deer - the legal limit - one with bow, one with gun. (Moose are a lottery animal, so you have to pay for the right to try for one, first.) I don't think I know anyone who has taken 3, one with bow, one with black-powder, and one with modern gun, although I know some who have tried.

          So hat's 2 x 60 lb animals max, including the bones guts and all.

          That is enough for a couple nice barbeques, but not enough to feed a family for a year, not even to feed one person, unless you are basically vegan with a steak now and then.

          And the price of it is - licenses, expensive equipment, and dozens and dozens of hours sitting out in the cold for days and days, with no guarantee of success.

          (Some people will go to other states and get more deer - but then you have to be able to afford to a) buy licenses out of state, b) drive all that distance, c) spend the time off from work/housework/life to go and hunt elsewhere.)

          "Don't be a janitor on the Death Star!" - Grey Lady Bast (change @ for AT to email)

          by bellatrys on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 05:07:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  There are probably more than you think (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RichM, hoolia

        I have several relatives who supplement their grocery costs with their hunting. A decent-sized deer can provide a fair quantity of meat for a lot less cost than an equivalent amount of beef. It depends on where you live, I suppose...hunting licenses here in my neck of the woods are fairly inexpensive, being $15 for an annual license or $300 for a lifetime license.

        "Truth never damages a cause that is just."~~~Mohandas K. Gandhi

        by LynneK on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 03:07:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's a hobby, not a livelyhood. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        duckhunter

        And when you add up all the costs, that deer carcass will cost the average hunter about a grand.  You could get imported reindeer meat for less!

  •  National Rifle Group Under Pressure To Oppose Bus (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueyedace2, LostInTexas
  •  Some sportsmen groups do understand (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Spit, el dorado gal, blueyedace2, citizenx

    that their sport (and in some cases livelyhood) is wholly dependent on the natural environment. Duck hunters have come to realize that all those little ponds that farmers (i.e. big ag buz) want to fill in are necessary for plentiful waterfowl. Clean lakes and streams are required for fishing.

    And now, they are beginning to see that man can have an impact on the climate. Maine's DNR has stated that the ice on any water body in the ENTIRE state is safe for walking. Maine's $350 MILLION snowmachine season is not looking like it's going to happen at all.

    I never have understood why outdoorsmen (and I am including the thousands of women in this term) have hated environmentalists. That conservatives have painted them as you describe, Volvo, etc. has worked. But now the see the error of their ways, hopefully not too late. Or that Gore isn't right.

    17. Ne5

    In chess you may hit a man when he's down -- Irving Chernev, on Przepiorka v. Prokes, Budapest, 1929

    by Spud1 on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:27:16 PM PST

    •  Why? A massive propaganda movement (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Spud1

      working overtime for the past 40+ years, thanks to big business and the conservative think-tanks.

      Nixon got a lot of his under-the-table money from big businessmen - including turncoat Dems - by promising them immunity/protection from the EPA. It's all there in All The President's Men.

      "Don't be a janitor on the Death Star!" - Grey Lady Bast (change @ for AT to email)

      by bellatrys on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 05:09:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I undestand that there was a lot of (0+ / 0-)

        propaganda that the environment didn't need protection - what I've never understood is that all these wo/men that are there in the field hunting and fishing di not/could not see the degradation that was happening all around them. You surely remember the anti-pollution ad with the Native American in the canoe seeing how bad things were, and his tear - is it a stretch to think that non-natives could see it too? Or were they too busy drikning beers, throwing the pull off tabs and palstic 6-pack rings into the water?

        That's what I don't get. If I was taking a dump on their kitchen counter, I think they'd notice. But somehow they didn't see what happened in the field.

        17. Ne5

        In chess you may hit a man when he's down -- Irving Chernev, on Przepiorka v. Prokes, Budapest, 1929

        by Spud1 on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 05:21:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I don't know where the empathy and (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Winnie, hoolia, dotcommodity

    conceptualization gene resides in the right wing, but I have noticed that unless these people experience it themselves they simply don't get it.  Remember when Bono took Jessie Helms to meet some AIDS sufferers in Africa?  Only then did Helms act like a human being. The right wing insulates itself from the rest of society so they don't have to think about others.  Clever or sad, take your pick

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities-Voltaire

    by hairspray on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:31:26 PM PST

  •  Ice skating in Minnesota (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Winnie, hoolia

    As I said on another related diary this morning, when I was a kid, we would skate outdoors from November to March. Now, it's closer to January and February-if we're lucky. Not much skating yet, since the erratic "unseasonably warm" weather we keep getting screws the ice up.

    On the plus side, apparently the "hardiness zones" that gardeners are familiar with are migrating northward. It appears that we may soon be in zones that previously were found in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio.

    Folks are also having to scramble a bit in preparations for the St. Paul Winter carnival, which is traditionally held (mostly outdoors) in the coldest stretch of winter at the end of January. Organizers have had to consider what to do if there's still no snow, and whether the activities traditionally held on frozen lakes can be safely done.

    •  Snowmobiling too (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hekebolos, Winnie

      is on life support in the Midwest. It was hit by high gas prices and now, with a lack of snow, it's dying an ugly death.  Unfortunately Nordic skiing is going to suffer too.

      A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

      by dougymi on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:36:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  move to Colorado (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Winnie, Utahrd

    High on Friday 5 degrees.

    High on Saturday 9 degrees.

    Don't start a blog, build a community with SoapBlox - the NEW blog framework.

    by pacified on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 02:42:25 PM PST

    •  [snark]You stole our snow! (0+ / 0-)

      Hey!  Give it back!  You're getting it all Concretey.

      East Coast Crud starts in Grand Junction!

      [/snark]

      Seriously, though; due to the all the Expatriate Californians here, I think Utah would fall apart if we ever got that much.

    •  WA State (0+ / 0-)

      Saturday we had 3 feet of snow on the ground and a high in the 20s.

      Sunday we got a Chinook wind - nearly 50 degrees, but wind gusts peaked at 137 MPH, sustained winds of 40-60 MPH, and thousands of 100-200 year old trees blown over. Our power was out from Sunday morning until 9 last night (with one brief interlude when the lights came back on).

      Monday it was back in the 20s, but probably closer to 2 feet of snow on the ground now (but the trees are 3 feet deep on the ground in places).

      There is no more New Frontier - we have got to make it here - Henley/Frey

      by badger on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 03:24:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I hope you're ready (0+ / 0-)

      for the Spring floods . . .

  •  Remeber when it used to snow? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Spit, Sherri in TX

    As the name says, yes I am a duck hunter. I have hunted ducks in six states, all red but for Illinois, with men and women of myriad backgrounds but I have NEVER EVER shared a blind with another democrat except for my brother.  To the point - there is not one of these people that would not agree that the migration patterns for ducks and geese have changed dramantically in a little less than a decade. Read, ducks and geese often do not migrate very far if at all anymore.  Why?  There is no reason to when it is this warm.  Hunting and fishing are big business for rural communities - I do not even want to think about the actual cost of each duck I bag; licenses, gas, lodging, shells, coat (Did not put on a coat during the entire 60 day season in MO and I hunted at least 40 days - from November first on!) etc...  Thousands, very literally thousands, of duck hunters from all over the country would descend upon central Arkansas' grand prairie - Brinkley, Stuttgartof acres of flooded timber.  Each year these stands of pin oaks used to flood naturally.  Not anymore.  The ducks just do not make it that far south and there is no water (except for what is pumped - rice fields) to hold them.  The absence of the many thousands of hunters has had an enormous impact on the local economy.  

  •  More to look forward to... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hoolia

    from Europe:

    Warm Europe Winter Has Pollen Lingering

    Pollen, earlier.  Even Norway is breaking out the pollen detection stuff.  Failing winter crops.  Bears and birds all messed up.  

    Very scary stuff worldwide.

  •  If it gets warm ENOUGH (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thereisnospoon

    the ice cap in Greenland melts, the influx of cold fresh water totally stops the Gulf Stream and voila:

    ICE AGE!!!!

    Happened before, can happen again.

    We're screwed either way but the ice fishing types will be happy

  •  This kind of radical departure from 'normal' (0+ / 0-)

    seasonal temperatures can manifest itself in changes to the flora and fauna in the venues that outdoorsmen have come to love.

    Example: premature warming causes premature end to hibernation which disrupts feeding and mating patterns.  Possible result:  declines in population of animals up and down the food chain resulting in high mortality of juvenile creatures leading to decline of populations of any number of wild life.

    Too bad the political biases have gotten in the way of thoughtful consideration of the consequences of global warming.

  •  Great job, KK. (0+ / 0-)

    Rec'd and how could anyone not tip ice?

    -4.25, -6.87: The next great step will be taken from here.

    by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 03:52:20 PM PST

  •  What a rockin' diary, theKK! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theKK

    Outstanding.

    But did you have to bring up Inhofe? I mean, really?

    My stomach hurts.

    (Nice meeting you the other night!)

    As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. - Justice William O. Douglas

    by occams hatchet on Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 11:00:47 PM PST

  •  CORRECTED: Gore says he has no plans to run in 20 (0+ / 0-)

    CORRECTED: Gore says he has no plans to run in 2008

    Correcting to clarify that Gore did not rule out running for president but said only he did not plan to run. Changes headlineTOKYO (Reuters) - Former U.S. Vice President        Al Gore said on Monday he had no plans to run in the next presidential race, despite rumors that he might build on the higher profile created by his environmental campaign to do so.

    Asked whether he planned to run in the 2008 election, Gore said: "I don't have plans to be a candidate again. I'm involved in a different kind of campaign."

    During a visit to Japan to promote his award-winning documentary "An Inconvenient Truth," Gore also urged Japan's top business lobby to spark a policy change on global warming by sending a strong message to its U.S. counterparts.

    "The Japanese business community, because of the respect with which you are regarded, can have a powerful influence on the shaping of opinions within the U.S. business community," Gore told executives at the Keidanren (Japanese Business Federation).

    "When that changes, then U.S. policy will change," he said, urging the members of Keidanren to send the strongest possible message to big business in the United States.

    The United States withdrew from the Kyoto Protocol, which mandates cuts in greenhouse gas emissions in the 2008-2012 period, saying the agreement would be harmful to the U.S. economy.

    As host of the 1997 talks that forged the protocol, the Japanese government has urged major polluters, including the United States, China and India, to work harder to combat climate change, most recently during a visit by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to Europe last week.

    Japan's own emissions of greenhouse gases amounted to 1.36 billion metric tons in the year to March 2006, up 0.6 percent on the previous year and 14.1 percent adrift of its objective to cut emissions to 6 percent below their 1990 levels.

    But Gore said that corporate Japan had a special role to play.

    "The business leadership of Japan can lead the way and lead the business community of the world," Gore said.

    "Your determination to be a part of the solution can be the key to the world successfully solving this crisis."

    More than 330 U.S. cities have endorsed the Kyoto Protocol, in a sign of grassroots support for its aims, Gore said.

    http://news.yahoo.com/...

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